Pandarus and his rhetorical manipulation of Trolius and Criseyde reminds me of how the divine constantly interfere in the romances/conflicts of mortals in these myths. On one hand, we dislike Pandarus because of his shady intentions, but on the other hand we have to appreciate his involvement; his interference is the catalyst for the myth. Often we see in the case of young lovers in these myths is that they have no real agency because higher characters are pulling strings. Had it been a god or someone else other than Pandarus, or the method of rhetorical argument different, the role of the intercessor would remain fundamental to the myth convention.
It was shown earlier in the story that Pandarus was quite the man who collected lovers in a joke that Criseyde made early on in the story, right before the manipulation tactics he imposed on her. I honestly think that Pandarus's motive to create a union between Troilus and Criseyde is the thrill that the idea of love offers during the time of war they are in. After all, who doesn't love a love story? I think it was an opportunity for him to live through Troilus, as there were a few references to him talking about love for himself and what that entails. Though disturbing because it's his niece, Criseyde, it wouldn't have been too uncommon for a union between relatives to occur during that time. Though I don't think he was interested in her in that way, he rather loved being the puppeteer to the union itself, as love seemed nowhere within his grasp.
It wasn't written in the constellations for them to wed, let alone live out the rest of their lives together. How many of you were set up on a blind date, got married and lived happily ever after. Pandarus even knows this, because in book four, if I'm not getting too far ahead, Pandarus tells Troilus there are plenty of fish in the sea. He even tells him, he can bring him two or three at a time to choose from. Which makes him a piss-poor uncle and an even worse friend. Pandarus just wants to be on the positive end of things for his benefit. Hell! He even forced the letter from Troilus into his niece's breast. Criseyde is just too easy going and can't read between the lines.
Oh, this couple is doomed! They are in a tighter relationship with Pandarus than they are with each other. I love your angle here--what would they do without him? Well, Troilus would probably mope about, perhaps until someone else caught his eye. But maybe I'm conflating him with Romeo and his professed true love for Rosaline--until Juliet walked in the party. Regardless, I don't see Troilus as putting an infatuation into action without outside help. And Criseyde? Would she even have noticed Troilus on her own?
Phew, there's a lot to unpack there! I enjoy your take on Pandarus, who serves a critical but sort of non-human role (others have kind of touched on how he seems like or reminds them of an otherworldly/super-human being) and who, as we discussed a bit in class too, seems to serve sort of as the audience, pleading for the two of them to just get together already. But you also break down his involvement into rhetoric and "hard to swallow" things like a suicide threat, and these seemingly dramatic elements are hard to set aside. He even claims that the fault would be in their own hands rather than fortune or chance, but *he* is the one actually driving them together. *He* is the one trying to control the story.
So to your question, I answer: he has a lot to lose because he lives for the drama, and he would hate the idea of failing because Pandarus is not a fail-er! He must win! At any cost! Anything short of that would spell out death! (Phew, exhausting.)
Anyway, thanks for this food for thought, as always! I think there's a lot to sit with here as we go through the last two books of Troilus and Criseyde.
Oh boy, great questions! I believe Pandarus to be highly ingenuine. It definitely calls the question that if this man had taken no part in this story, would there even be a story? Most likely not, in my mind. Criseyde shows disinterest, and he leans into his manipulation techniques to convince her of the possibility of love with Troilus. I was honestly creeped out by his demeanor, even before this emotional manipulation. It almost feels as though Pandarus is related to Troilus, simply due to the fact that he seems loyal to none other than Troilus.
I had really questioned Pandarus's motives for wanting to get Troilus and Criseyde together from the beginning. It always felt weird how passionate he was about the subject, and these books really highlighted that oddity. I definitely think that Pandarus's constant nagging at building a romance between the two is a major factor in why it is even a romance at all. The relationship between Troilus and Criseyde just seems very superficial and Pandarus's forceful attitude makes it seem even more insincere.
I'm glad to see that I was not the only one put off by Pandarus! Criseyde is a grieving widow, and Pandarus is incredibly pushy (to put it nicely) for her to get over the loss and move on to Troilus. It's certainly difficult as a modern reader to think Troilus and Criseyde's love would grow (let alone organically), considering the questionable nature of Criseyde's agreement to meet with him in the first place. Pandarus's emotional manipulation and interference are an early bad omen for Troilus and Criseyde's relationship and its future fate.
I find Pandarus to be a very creepy character. He uses his niece (who is still mourning her late husband) as a way to please Troilus. The way he spins his words to make Criseyde interested in Troilus, and when that doesn’t seem to work he moves to emotionally manipulating her. He has no regard for her or what she wants, only what he can do for Troilus. It would make more sense if he was Troilus’ uncle as opposed to Criseyde’s.
Panduras is objectively a weird and creepy character, who just gets creepier as the books go on. It blows my mind that Troilus and Criseyde are so willing to let him be so involved in their relationship- it would be crazy to see such a relationship in modern day. While Panduras was so influential in their relationship, I feel that by the end of the books Troilus and Criseyde's relationship is truly their relationship, not his. The story would nonetheless have been totally different were it not for Panduras' interference, however! Who knows if it would ever have started up in the first place.
Its finally hitting me why this whole section with Pandarus is feeling so familiar: it reminds me of the Swan Princess film (a childhood favorite of mine)! The parents and servants of the central couple are all extremely pushy from start to finish to have the children marry once they grow up, so they constantly put them together, which the children/teenagers resist strongly. While they do eventually seem to fall in love, the prince is more focused on how beautiful the princess has become, while she has actually fallen for him as a person. Naturally, conflict abounds. I wonder if the same is going to be true for Troilus and Criseyde?
Pandarus and his rhetorical manipulation of Trolius and Criseyde reminds me of how the divine constantly interfere in the romances/conflicts of mortals in these myths. On one hand, we dislike Pandarus because of his shady intentions, but on the other hand we have to appreciate his involvement; his interference is the catalyst for the myth. Often we see in the case of young lovers in these myths is that they have no real agency because higher characters are pulling strings. Had it been a god or someone else other than Pandarus, or the method of rhetorical argument different, the role of the intercessor would remain fundamental to the myth convention.
It was shown earlier in the story that Pandarus was quite the man who collected lovers in a joke that Criseyde made early on in the story, right before the manipulation tactics he imposed on her. I honestly think that Pandarus's motive to create a union between Troilus and Criseyde is the thrill that the idea of love offers during the time of war they are in. After all, who doesn't love a love story? I think it was an opportunity for him to live through Troilus, as there were a few references to him talking about love for himself and what that entails. Though disturbing because it's his niece, Criseyde, it wouldn't have been too uncommon for a union between relatives to occur during that time. Though I don't think he was interested in her in that way, he rather loved being the puppeteer to the union itself, as love seemed nowhere within his grasp.
It wasn't written in the constellations for them to wed, let alone live out the rest of their lives together. How many of you were set up on a blind date, got married and lived happily ever after. Pandarus even knows this, because in book four, if I'm not getting too far ahead, Pandarus tells Troilus there are plenty of fish in the sea. He even tells him, he can bring him two or three at a time to choose from. Which makes him a piss-poor uncle and an even worse friend. Pandarus just wants to be on the positive end of things for his benefit. Hell! He even forced the letter from Troilus into his niece's breast. Criseyde is just too easy going and can't read between the lines.
Oh, this couple is doomed! They are in a tighter relationship with Pandarus than they are with each other. I love your angle here--what would they do without him? Well, Troilus would probably mope about, perhaps until someone else caught his eye. But maybe I'm conflating him with Romeo and his professed true love for Rosaline--until Juliet walked in the party. Regardless, I don't see Troilus as putting an infatuation into action without outside help. And Criseyde? Would she even have noticed Troilus on her own?
Phew, there's a lot to unpack there! I enjoy your take on Pandarus, who serves a critical but sort of non-human role (others have kind of touched on how he seems like or reminds them of an otherworldly/super-human being) and who, as we discussed a bit in class too, seems to serve sort of as the audience, pleading for the two of them to just get together already. But you also break down his involvement into rhetoric and "hard to swallow" things like a suicide threat, and these seemingly dramatic elements are hard to set aside. He even claims that the fault would be in their own hands rather than fortune or chance, but *he* is the one actually driving them together. *He* is the one trying to control the story.
So to your question, I answer: he has a lot to lose because he lives for the drama, and he would hate the idea of failing because Pandarus is not a fail-er! He must win! At any cost! Anything short of that would spell out death! (Phew, exhausting.)
Anyway, thanks for this food for thought, as always! I think there's a lot to sit with here as we go through the last two books of Troilus and Criseyde.
Oh boy, great questions! I believe Pandarus to be highly ingenuine. It definitely calls the question that if this man had taken no part in this story, would there even be a story? Most likely not, in my mind. Criseyde shows disinterest, and he leans into his manipulation techniques to convince her of the possibility of love with Troilus. I was honestly creeped out by his demeanor, even before this emotional manipulation. It almost feels as though Pandarus is related to Troilus, simply due to the fact that he seems loyal to none other than Troilus.
I had really questioned Pandarus's motives for wanting to get Troilus and Criseyde together from the beginning. It always felt weird how passionate he was about the subject, and these books really highlighted that oddity. I definitely think that Pandarus's constant nagging at building a romance between the two is a major factor in why it is even a romance at all. The relationship between Troilus and Criseyde just seems very superficial and Pandarus's forceful attitude makes it seem even more insincere.
I'm glad to see that I was not the only one put off by Pandarus! Criseyde is a grieving widow, and Pandarus is incredibly pushy (to put it nicely) for her to get over the loss and move on to Troilus. It's certainly difficult as a modern reader to think Troilus and Criseyde's love would grow (let alone organically), considering the questionable nature of Criseyde's agreement to meet with him in the first place. Pandarus's emotional manipulation and interference are an early bad omen for Troilus and Criseyde's relationship and its future fate.
I find Pandarus to be a very creepy character. He uses his niece (who is still mourning her late husband) as a way to please Troilus. The way he spins his words to make Criseyde interested in Troilus, and when that doesn’t seem to work he moves to emotionally manipulating her. He has no regard for her or what she wants, only what he can do for Troilus. It would make more sense if he was Troilus’ uncle as opposed to Criseyde’s.
Panduras is objectively a weird and creepy character, who just gets creepier as the books go on. It blows my mind that Troilus and Criseyde are so willing to let him be so involved in their relationship- it would be crazy to see such a relationship in modern day. While Panduras was so influential in their relationship, I feel that by the end of the books Troilus and Criseyde's relationship is truly their relationship, not his. The story would nonetheless have been totally different were it not for Panduras' interference, however! Who knows if it would ever have started up in the first place.
Its finally hitting me why this whole section with Pandarus is feeling so familiar: it reminds me of the Swan Princess film (a childhood favorite of mine)! The parents and servants of the central couple are all extremely pushy from start to finish to have the children marry once they grow up, so they constantly put them together, which the children/teenagers resist strongly. While they do eventually seem to fall in love, the prince is more focused on how beautiful the princess has become, while she has actually fallen for him as a person. Naturally, conflict abounds. I wonder if the same is going to be true for Troilus and Criseyde?